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tabhair freagratabhair freagra #4 john 7 Meán Fómhair 2010, 18:05 GMT
1. "I can't help but find this apocalyptic terror that making Irish no longer compulsory in school has for some people."

No apocalyptic terror, Thomas - just a parallel drawn with non-compulsory Scots Gaelic which you have ignored.

2. "Has this policy resulted a significant rise of speakers over the last 90 years? No - the opposite in fact"

If we are dealing in "facts", you will be aware that the rapid decline of Irish has been attenuated in this last 90 years, compared with the decades previously. You cannot observe that the use Irish has declined at the same time as compulsory Irish has been in force and conclude that one caused the other. I refer you to the entry on Logic in Wikipedia.

3. "Continuing fruitless policies like compulsory Irish in schools and ludicrous money wasting policies like translating documents nobody reads must end."

Provide evidence for "fruitless". And while your at it, define "nobody". Does it include the translator? Or me? Or is it in fact you?

4. "It must start providing for itself." I see, so Irish is to be the subject of economic Darwinism. Anything else you'd like to see "providing for itself". St. Stephen's Green perhaps, a waste of prime city territory surely. Or the National Museum? The DART? What a drain on the finances!
tabhair freagratabhair freagra #5 Fearghus 8 Meán Fómhair 2010, 20:06 GMT
Táimse ag freastail agus i mo chónaí sa tuaisceart agus tá an ghaeilge róghanach ní maith liomsa é mar níl a lán daoine ag iarraidh é a dhéanamh agus measaim go mbeidh an rud céanna ag tarlú má bhéinn an ghaeilge róghanach.
tabhair freagratabhair freagra #6 Breandan C Colbaird 8 Meán Fómhair 2010, 20:47 GMT
Lean ar aghaidh leis an nGaeilge 'sna scoileanna; ná bac leis na sclábhaí. Is soiléar go bhfuil an tír grá ag ísliú le leanúint an TIGER ach toisc go bhdfuil sé marbh is féidir linn a bheith bródúil as cultúr na tíortha aris. D'éirigh leis na Iúdaigh a dteanga do aithbheocaint
Breandán C Colbaird, Muilleann gCearr
tabhair freagratabhair freagra #7 Una B 9 Meán Fómhair 2010, 09:30 GMT
Tá dul amú ort a Thomáis. Tá an ceart ag údar an ailt. Níl éinne ag rá go bhfuil an córas atá ann foirfe ach má mhuineann tú níos lú Gaeilge do níos lú daoine thar níos lú am = níos lú cainteoiri Gaeilge. Dála an scéil an-alt ach nil me cinnte ón alt an dtarlóidh an moladh seo nó nach dtarlóidh.
tabhair freagratabhair freagra #8 Sally Ní dh 9 Meán Fómhair 2010, 12:22 GMT
Alt suimiúil agus díospóireacht shuimiúil. Leanaigí oraibh!
tabhair freagratabhair freagra #9 Rónán Ó Lorcáin 9 Meán Fómhair 2010, 16:23 GMT
john - you say that “Irish has been attenuated in this last 90 years, compared with the decades previously.” Well then, what about, the emigrant generation from 1950s-80s who were subjected to compulsory Irish. If the language did not go into decline then how come those emigrants never used the language again as soon as they left Irish shores? Surely if compulsory irish was so effective in attenuating the decline in irish, then it would have been used as a medium of communication between Irish emigrants who, in those days worked in almost homogeneous groups in building sites, etc, where English is not necessary to perform one's work. Using the odd word does not count, either. Also, those that were left behind (outside the Gaeltachts) by and large never uttered a sentence in Irish again to anyone once they left school, except to show off in front of foreigners, or to impress government official who provided them with grant for speaking irish.

The difference between Irish providing for themselves and the examples you have provided is that all cities that aspire to be regarded as modern and cultural NEED green spaces, museums and public transport. These facilities do contribute indirectly to the economic well-being of Dublin by presenting it as a pleasant, culturally aware place, with public transport facilities, thus attracting people who want to live and work there and also tourists. If you destroyed all this and turned it into a 3rd world slum, no one would come and spend their money or do business there. You don't need the Irish language for Dublin to be regarded as such. Dublin has existed without anyone speaking Irish to their fellow Dubliner for centuries. The point is, if people could see that it would benefit them economically in some way they would speak it.
tabhair freagratabhair freagra #10 Seán P. 9 Meán Fómhair 2010, 17:08 GMT
If we followed your rationale a Rónáin we wouldn't teach art or poetry or anything else that didn't benefit people economically
tabhair freagratabhair freagra #11 Frainc Ó Séaghadha 11 Meán Fómhair 2010, 09:14 GMT
Ach nach bhfuil pointe aige. Má bhrúitear rud ar dhuine ní maith leo é. É sin ráite táim sásta nach dócha go dtarlóidh moladh Khenny go luath dar leis an alt seo.
tabhair freagratabhair freagra #12 john 12 Meán Fómhair 2010, 13:16 GMT
Rónán, you make a point........
".......how come those emigrants never used the language again as soon as they left Irish shores? Surely if compulsory irish was so effective in attenuating the decline in irish, then it would have been used as a medium of communication between Irish emigrants..."

Irish-speaking people from the Gaeltachts used the language abroad when they emigrated and were in each other's company. They still do. Likewise English-speaking emigrants never used the Irish, or French(!), they learnt at school. What's your point? I have never made the point that compulsory Irish slowed the rate of Gaeltacht decline - I said that you cannot prove that compulsory Irish caused Irish to decline!


"Má bhrúitear rud ar dhuine ní maith leo é." Cen chaoi, meas tú, gur tháinig an Béarla isteach go h'Éireann? Ranganna oíche? Tá Béarla riachtanach, matamatic riachtanach. An cheart rogha a bheith againn ar na hábhair seo freisin?
tabhair freagratabhair freagra #13 Mór Liam Ó Súilleabháin 13 Meán Fómhair 2010, 01:05 GMT
You can't expect a generation to be come fluent in Irish if it's only taught as a subject. If you truly want to make Irish the number one language in Ireland, make all the school just like gaelscoils where Irish is the language that everything is taught through. That is the biggest disservice that the government has done to the language by making it secondary. Make all national school gaelscoils!
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